Dutch Watch Collector Paul, on Building his own Dream Dress Watch, the Angelier Classique

I’m pretty sure that at one point in every watch enthusiast’s life, the inspiration to design your own watch pops into your head. Through buying, owning and possibly selling watches, we tend to get a pretty good feeling of the pros and cons of what’s out there. The next step would be to put that design to paper, which is a leap only a handful of people will make. Even fewer will take that design and actually seek out patterns and suppliers to make it a reality. And from that handful of projects, only a small percentage will actually make it. And from all of that wheat-from-chaff separating, just a handful will turn into a commercial brand. Such are the challenges in building your dream watch, which takes guts, perseverance, a clear vision, and a little bit of luck. With all this in mind, we turn to Paul Angelier, a Dutchman whose story follows this path and who’s building his actual dream dress watch. And through the support (and demands, it seems) of a good number of people, including several over at Horlogeforum.nl, the biggest Dutch watch forum, the Angelier Classique is becoming a 100-piece reality!

Robin, MONOCHROME Watches – Paul, you’re not a watchmaker by trade, but you’re quite active in the watch community. Can you explain where your passion for watches has come from?

The first watch my parents gave me was a Swatch with a transparent case through which I could see the quartz movement. As a teenager, I loved going to the skate park or the arcade. To get there, I walked through the mall and often stopped at the jeweller to look at the Breitling and TAG Heuer watches. At the time, I thought those were cool brands with great looks and was not at all concerned with the technology.

The first watch I bought myself as a teenager was a Festina with Breitling Chronomat looks. My interest in watch technology was sparked when someone showed me his Seiko with an automatic movement. I found it fascinating that you could see the movements of the rotor and balance. Also, listening to the higher beat rate was really new to me because I was only familiar with battery-powered watches. So, my first automatic watch was a Seiko 5 with an open caseback to get a good look at the movement.

You’re quite an experienced enthusiast and collector. What does your journey through collecting watches look like? How has it evolved over the years?

It took several years before I started collecting Seiko divers, such as the SKX007/009 and its vintage precursors 7002 and the 6309 Turtle. I found out that there were models for sale in Japan that were not delivered in Europe or the US. The so-called JDM Only. I found the Seiko SARB, SBDC, and SBDX series especially interesting. I then also started modifying the SKX divers. I liked the idea that you could change a watch into a unique piece.

Over the years, the watches I bought became more and more expensive. At the very beginning, it did happen that I had bought a limited edition from Japan. After waiting several weeks for delivery, I did not dare to wear the watch, afraid I would scratch it. In fact, I was not used to spending that much on one watch.

Besides the many Seiko’s, I also bought watches from other brands such as Omega, Panerai, Rolex and Breitling. Often, I would buy several models of a particular brand in a short period because the brand interested me or others in the watch community were praising them.

In 2016, you launched something called Pange Watches. Can you tell us more about that?

Through trade-ins and occasional sales, I had built up a sizable and diverse collection that contained serious money. At that time, I was already totally crazy about Grand Seiko. I was always looking for a limited edition. It was not such a favourite brand then as it is today. Most people I showed the watches to liked them, but upon hearing the price, many still gave up because, for that money, you could also buy a respected Swiss brand.

In 2015, I met several guys who dealt in Rolex. In a couple of those meetings, we talked about the route they had taken with collecting watches and how they had become dealers. Those conversations did make me think more seriously about how I would do it. When my contract was not renewed, I saw an opportunity to take this step. In order not to compete with the Rolex-oriented dealers, my idea was to focus on Grand Seiko and JDM Seiko. I made an appointment at the Chamber of Commerce, took pictures of all my watches, built a website and created a dealer account on Chrono24.

It went well right away, and I sold a lot online and ended up renting a small office space. Soon, I was also offered watches for trade-in, and in the beginning, I was rather easygoing about it. As a result, I regularly ended up with an unsellable watch. It turned out that it was too damaged or a model that no one was interested in. It became clear to me that I had to be more critical when a potential buyer offered me his watch to trade in. The overall condition of the watch had to be good. Complete with box and papers. And if I didn’t like or want to wear the watch, I would not buy it.

The supply of used Grand Seiko’s was scarce in Europe at that time. Few dealers and jewellers included it in their stock. The same was true for the JDM Seiko such as the sarb017 Alpinist, sarb033/035, SBDC Sumo, Shogun and SBDX Marinemaster. In that sense, I had a fairly unique position with Pange Watches in Europe.

So, from enthusiast to collector, to dealer. What would be the next step?

Had you asked me this question a year ago, I would not have a clear answer. I had lost the fun of selling watches for a while. It wasn’t that I couldn’t enjoy a nice watch anymore or wasn’t interested in the new releases – it was the business side of it I didn’t enjoy. The motivation to stock new models and fulfil customer searches was pretty much gone. One of the reasons for this is that some guys broke into my house when I went to dinner with my family and friends.

Halfway through the evening, I got alarm notifications. So I rushed home and inside I encountered three men running down the stairs dropping empty watch boxes trying to flee the house. Although I always keep my stock in a safe deposit box at the bank and have never made a home appointment, I had a lot of questions. They had gone to great lengths to break into the house and had clearly only been looking for watches. The impact of this event was very big for my family, and for a while, I didn’t trust anyone.

With all the craziness surrounding Rolex, I was completely done with the brand. I took every Rolex I had for sale off the website and sold it to a fellow dealer. I had absolutely no desire to sell watches anymore, having to look over my shoulder to see if I was being followed as I went home from the office. Finally, I pulled myself together and made a fresh start. That got me more into dress watches and the more elegant and sophisticated side of watchmaking rather than overpriced sports watches.

When we first spoke over the phone, you mentioned your quest for the perfect dress watch. What drives you in this? And perhaps also, why do you strive for the perfect dress watch?

Over the past few years, I have owned some very nice dress watches. Some of these watches quickly fall into the outer category in terms of price with brands like Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin and A. Lange & Sohne. These watches seem almost perfect. In terms of comfort, sizing and finish, they are, but that also has a downside. I could not wear them daily and carefree in every situation. They are just too expensive for that. And in yellow and rose gold sometimes too flashy.

I found alternatives with a friendlier price tag in Zenith, Breguet, Grand Seiko and Jaeger-LeCoultre – major brands with nice in-house movements. But those aren’t exactly cheap these days, either. Within Swatch Group, you can find very nice and affordable watches. Think Longines and Hamilton. Or among the German brands Nomos and Junghans. Actually, there are toppers in every price category.

But to say that they are perfect for my taste: no. And that has to do with a wish list that has slowly formed. Mind you, it’s my list with desired specifications that reflect my taste. It is an image of a watch that I would like to wear but haven’t found yet. It started with modern watches but ended up with vintage watches from the 1930s-1950s. And those watches are mostly too small.

Well, then, you must have a solid idea of what your ideal dress watch should look and feel like, right?

I think a dress watch should meet the following specifications. First, the case. For my requirements, it should have a diameter of about 38mm and should be no more than 9mm thick with a clear caseback. The lug-to-lug ratio should be 46-47mm with a strap attachment of 20mm.

Second, the movement. That should be a hand-winding movement with the small seconds at 6 o’clock. No date or other complication. Furthermore, I want the watch to be wearable daily, carefree and in any situation. So it should not be too expensive and not made of gold. Somewhat waterproof. So preferably at least 50m WR.

What colour dial and what shape hands the watch should have is less important. The problem lies in the first two points. Case size and movement. With most modern dress watches, it comes down to the fact that the diameter is usually too large at 40mm or more, and the watch is too thick. With vintage pieces, the diameter is more like 34mm or less. The lugs are often too short, too thin or drilled through. The lug-to-lug is also not ideal. The shape of the hands may be less important, but what is noticeable is that they are often too short. I like the design of vintage watches from the 1930s-1950s. Unfortunately, most are too small, with no clear case back, too much wear and tear and not waterproof.

Another important point that is determined by the movement and dial size is the position of the small seconds. It should be balanced with the rest of the dial. If you look at a vintage Calatrava 565 or 570, everything seems to be in balance. But that is because the diameter is 35mm. But if you look at a 35-36mm Nomos or the Calatrava 5196, there is too much empty space at 6 o’clock. It is too close to the centre. Or the diameter of the small seconds is too small. It is not that I have been working on it continuously for the past six years, but it has been playing for that long.

And that’s escalated into a project to build one on your own!

Yes, that’s right. If you are critical of the existing offerings, both vintage and modern, and just can’t manage to find a suitable watch that meets your needs, there are two options. Accept it or do it yourself. It was time to go to the drawing board and work out my lists of data and wishes. That was in March 2024.

Can you talk us through your design process? Was everything done by you, or did you seek help from someone?

What I liked about owning a Patek, Vacheron or A. Lange is that these are thin watches and the movements are so nice to look at.  So a thin watch with a good-looking calibre is what I wanted to design. Trying to find the right movement became the first and most important part of the following steps for the design and technical drawing. It has been a challenge to find and persuade manufacturers to allow only a few parts to be made. Most just want to see larger numbers. Or don’t even return your calls.

I had made some sketches on paper before, but never with the idea of executing them. When you have owned or handled many watches, at some point, you know what your favourite designs look like and what size and shape a watch should have to wear comfortably on your wrist. I kept a document with case specifications of the dress watches I was happy to wear. That is where the max. 39x47x9mm came from. However, the shape of the case and lugs, relative to the caseback, are also important. If the lugs are short and the caseback is thick (often with an automatic watch), the watch may wobble on your wrist (think about Rolex DateJust).

In the early days, when I collected Seiko Sumo and Stargate, I noticed that the curved side profile of these models benefits how the watch hugs your wrist. The shape of the side profile became an important subject in the design. I wanted a three-part case with long lugs. The center part has a side brushed finish, and the case back and bezel are polished. That is just why I liked my A. Lange & Sohne Saxonia Thin. The bezel has an extra facet, as seen on some Grand Seiko watches.

For the dial design, I took inspiration from pocket watches and watches from the 1930s-1950s. Arabic numerals in the Breguet style were common at that time. Examples can be found on vintage Omega, Longines, Patek, Movado, Ulysse, IWC and even Doxa. Comparing these watches, you’ll recognize the style of Breguet, but also notice small differences in the shape of the numerals. And that makes sense because it is a handwritten font. Even today, it is not available as a digital font either. I had to draw and digitize all the numerals myself. The printing on the dial had to be minimal so all attention would go to the applied numerals. But I wanted to add some extra details in the railroad track for the minutes and the small seconds sub-dial. The length of the hands had to be right and match the printing of the minutes and seconds tracks. The hour and minute hands had to be curved and with a bent tip, plus I also wanted a small chamfer on the inside of the hole.

At one point, I couldn’t get on with the 3D software. Then I asked my brother-in-law, who is very skilled in 3D CAD drawing, for help. When the parts for the prototype watch cases were ready, I assembled one watch. Finally, I had my own watch on my wrist. Although there was no movement, no dial, and no hands, it immediately gave me an awesome feeling. The crown was a bit difficult to pull out, and the grip did not feel right. So I adjusted the design. Within a few weeks, the new crown was ready. Now I needed to wait for the rest of the parts.

What about the movement?

The movement is the hand-wound calibre LJP7380 made by La Joux-Perret. This movement in soigné grade looks great, and with a thickness of only 2.7mm and a diameter of 30mm, it fills the case nicely. This is great when you turn the watch over to see the movement. There are some other thin movements like ETA/Peseux 7001, but its diameter is only 23mm, and I think the position of the 6 o’clock small seconds is too close to the centre. Another advantage is the power reserve of 90 hours.

The only disadvantage is that it is made-to-order, which affects the delivery time. This is different from, say, a movement from Sellita. These are in stock, and there is no minimum order quantity, and if you want, they are readily available through third parties. But I am super happy that LJP gave me the opportunity to use this calibre. It has been a challenge to find and persuade manufacturers to allow only a few parts or movements to be made. Most just want to see orders with larger numbers. The choice for the LJP7380 is also because there is no other calibre that meets my needs; they are too thick, too small, or the sub-seconds is positioned too close to the centre axis. This would make the final product look very different.

There’s also been quite some interest from fellow collectors, and it’s now being done in a series of 100 pieces! Must be exciting!

Yes, 100 pieces is the minimum order for some parts I have to take in agreement with the factories. For some parts, it is even 500 pieces. That’s certainly exciting. And could still be a challenge. Just because people shout ‘wow’ and ‘well done’ doesn’t mean they will actually buy the watch. Consider the story of the Grand Seiko I shared. They absolutely loved it and wanted one, but for that money, there was a lot of other great stuff out there. We live in a time when we are used to ordering today with deliveries tomorrow. When the time comes for you to press the order button for an Angelier watch, you commit yourself because you know that it will not be delivered to you tomorrow, but months will pass. I hope, of course, that many will push that button and join me in this adventure.

What comes after that? Will we see the launch of Angelier Watches as a brand?

Yes, if the launch succeeds, for sure. Variations with a different colour dial. Or heat-blasted hands. It could be just like that. The watch I have worn for a long time is a Longines Heritage with a black sector dial. I love it, and it fits the design style of the Angelier. It could easily become the next model.

I am convinced that there are plenty of people who can appreciate current designs. But I am even more convinced that there are collectors who also recognize some of the critical points I mention and would like to have a flatter watch with the right measurements and would like to see a dial that is more balanced thanks to the movement that is in it. And then, when they turn the watch over and look at the movement, they think, yes, this is perfect.

How can people keep track of your project or get in touch and express interest in one of the 100 pieces?

Well, I am active on Instagram under the names @PangeHorloges and @Angelier_Watches, but people can also follow the project on PangeHorloges.nl. There, they can also reach me if they have questions or want to reserve one for themselves.

Editorial Note: Please take into account that the images of the Angelier Classique are of the first assembled prototypes. Small changes might be implemented to further fine-tune the design.